RESQDOC
01-05-03, 20:06
A Thread from TF. Just read it through to the end. Sigh.
Author Topic: CLS
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-03-2003 22:15
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Hi, folks...
I'm taking Combat Lifesaver next weekend...
I f'ing hate needles. I'd like to do a little preliminary 'practice' to sort of lessen the stress factor beforehand. I was thinking of getting some syringes and saline and trying a few practice shots. As dumb as this sounds, I really have a phobia about these stupid things. Any suggestions?
TIA
QS
IP: Logged
gear_guru
Member posted 01-04-2003 04:45
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Just curious, but are you going to be the sticker or the stickee on these "practice" shots? Last time I checked CLS didn't teach you to be both at once.
IP: Logged
Keld
Member posted 01-04-2003 05:56
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QuietShootr,
It's all in your head.
Doing practice shots on yourself is most likely not going to help with your phobia, but might increase it, if you dont do it right. Work it out in your head, there really isnt anything bad going to happen if you do it right. But dont start to do injections on yourself, until you have recieved proper technique training.
Im not sure how your CLS program runs, but our CLS program, if you can call it that, have you do injections on yourself, because if you can do that, you can do it to others, no problem. But the other way around, some people tend to have problems. It's all in the head.
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 09:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You 'get to' be both sticker and stickee, from what I understand. Believe me, I know it's stupid...if it were reasonable, it wouldn't be a phobia!
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 09:58
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gear_guru:
Just curious, but are you going to be the sticker or the stickee on these "practice" shots? Last time I checked CLS didn't teach you to be both at once.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I've been misinformed, but I thought you had to do both. I was thinking of sticking myself (this is REALLY starting to sound obscene) as sort of a desensitization thing.
IP: Logged
MedTech
Novice posted 01-04-2003 18:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quiet I cannot attest to the CLS course. But I can help you on starting IV's.
If you have this high of a phobia of sticking someone and being stuck, go your turn first of starting it on someone.
Put your tourniquet on.
Once you find a good IV site, clean with your alcohol prep. Not sure the CLS way, but in my world it is a big no,no to touch the IV site once it has been prepped with alcohol.
Take a good deep breath and hold your IV Cath between your thumb and middle finger. I prefer to go flat and shallow. Do not jab, just easily advance till you see "flash". Once you get the flash, advance the cath and pull the needle out. As you pull the needle out, try to put pressure on the vein and cath location. Don't worry if some blood comes out of the hub of the cath. Then attach your line of fluid and secure your cath.
If you are interested in praticing and just worried about handling a needle, get a kids foam squishy ball or an orange/grapefruit. This will give you the benefit of feeling the pop going through the outer laying and advancing.
I wouldn't be trying to stick yourself if you are that nervous. Get one of your buddies and let them pratice on you if you are worried about being stuck. Or you can always go to your local EMS station and see if they have a new guy that wants some pratice. If they say EJ, RUN!
If you need any other help, let me know.
IP: Logged
gear_guru
Member posted 01-04-2003 19:33
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you get to do both, but not simultaneously! That was my point. Are you scared of performing the stick or receiving the IV?
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 21:14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Receiving is the problem, not giving!
What's flash? Is that when you see the hub fill with blood?
[This message has been edited by QuietShootr (edited 01-04-2003).]
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 21:17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MedTech:
Quiet I cannot attest to the CLS course. But I can help you on starting IV's.
If you have this high of a phobia of sticking someone and being stuck, go your turn first of starting it on someone.
Put your tourniquet on.
Once you find a good IV site, clean with your alcohol prep. Not sure the CLS way, but in my world it is a big no,no to touch the IV site once it has been prepped with alcohol.
Take a good deep breath and hold your IV Cath between your thumb and middle finger. I prefer to go flat and shallow. Do not jab, just easily advance till you see "flash". Once you get the flash, advance the cath and pull the needle out. As you pull the needle out, try to put pressure on the vein and cath location. Don't worry if some blood comes out of the hub of the cath. Then attach your line of fluid and secure your cath.
If you are interested in praticing and just worried about handling a needle, get a kids foam squishy ball or an orange/grapefruit. This will give you the benefit of feeling the pop going through the outer laying and advancing.
I wouldn't be trying to stick yourself if you are that nervous. Get one of your buddies and let them pratice on you if you are worried about being stuck. Or you can always go to your local EMS station and see if they have a new guy that wants some pratice. If they say EJ, RUN!
If you need any other help, let me know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay...what's EJ?
IP: Logged
MedTech
Novice posted 01-04-2003 21:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Flash is what it is called when the hub gets blood in it.
EJ = External Jugular Vein. It is the large one in your neck. Usually done on pts circling the drain.
I wouldn't just sit at home and prick yourself with a needle to get used to it. Just don't look at your buddy or where he is sticking on the check off.
But there are alot of places out there that don't mind helping you in your area.
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 21:44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MedTech:
Yes, Flash is what it is called when the hub gets blood in it.
EJ = External Jugular Vein. It is the large one in your neck. Usually done on pts circling the drain.
I wouldn't just sit at home and prick yourself with a needle to get used to it. Just don't look at your buddy or where he is sticking on the check off.
But there are alot of places out there that don't mind helping you in your area.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ack!! I'd hope I wouldn't be conscious for that! Though I suppose if you were having that done, you would have much bigger concerns than the needle stick.
[This message has been edited by QuietShootr (edited 01-04-2003).]
IP: Logged
RESQDOC
Member posted 01-05-2003 11:59
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A common problem. No worries, for the next week do this:
Don't stick yourself, do guided imagery desensitization. I want you, at least two times a day, to lay down in a quiet place, and begin with simple breathing exercises. Slow in, slow out, for about 5 minutes, until you are relaxed. Do not actively think about getting an IV, but don't try and force the thoughts away if they come to you. Just breath in, breath out while thinking to yourself "(in) Feeling Good" "(out) Feeling Fineeeee". Now start to think about the specifics of the IV process. First you will lay down. Then they will clean your arm. Then they will put a tourniquet on your arm. Then they will introduce the needle in your arm. Then there will be a little blood flow and the IV will be hooked up. Then they will tape it in place. At each stage as you visualize it, as you begin to experience anxiety you will not go any further, but do your breathing exercises and then in a few moments you can go on and visualize the next step. At the end you will visualize yourself having completed the entire process without difficulty, breath and relax.
Have the most experienced person start the first one on you. Have them use a large vein in the forearm, not hand, they hurt less. In a practice setting it is often helpful to infiltrate a little Lidocaine over the vein with a really small needle, so that you don't feel the IV so much - ask ahead of time if they can do this for you. You can also reduce the sensation with ice but this will make smaller veins a bit harder to hit so pick a big one. Lay down while they are starting the IV and do the breathing exercises exactly as you practiced them. It will be over before you know it.
You will do well. You will complete your training successfully. You will be proud of yourself.
With variations on this I have repaired lacerations, reduced dislocations and fractures, and done various other minor procedures both in the ER and in the field without pain meds/locals. It works.
HTH,
Keith
IP: Logged
gear_guru
Member posted 01-05-2003 17:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESQDOC, you know they aren't going to "be nice" at CLS. Some other student is going to stick him. The kid doing his stick will probably be doing it for the first time. I hate to say it, but chances are good he will be digging around.
My suggestion is for him to get with his Bn Medics before he goes if he wants to be a pin cushion. Otherwise, when the IV class hapens, turn his head, look the other way, say "there no place like home" and take it like a man.
IP: Logged
RESQDOC
Member posted 01-05-2003 19:32
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right, bending over and taking it like a man is MUCH better than actually solving the problem...
GG I have read and respected your posts on other forums, but IMO you have stepped on your reproductive unit here. This man had the courage to admit a concern and ask for help in a sincere fashion. Good for him. I offered help using proven techniques, although you may not understand the underlying principles. Your comments just blew the entire theraputic response out of the water by undermining whatever confidence he might have gained out of our efforts to help him. Whatever he encountered at CLS, he would have been better prepared for what he experienced there. Good job GG, thanks for your help.
For those of you actually interested in learning something, modifications of the technique above is an effective method of field pain control when medications are not available or not indicated. Professionals understand the role that the mind plays in performance, perception, results.
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-05-2003 20:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll try that, starting tomorrow. I think gear_guru is right though, I'm likely to have an 18 year old PFC taking the Bayonet Assault course on my arm. It's an old phobia for me, and I'm willing to try about anything to mitigate it.
My wife thinks it's funny as hell... "you'll jump out of a plane, eat anything anyone will put in front of you, etc..etc.. and you're scared shitless of needles!" Women..
:-)
One of my compadres says he can snitch me some topical lidocaine, FWIW.
Will try and report back...
***** And the learning point here is...? Echos the comments about wilfull ingnorance, does it not? Scream.
Author Topic: CLS
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-03-2003 22:15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, folks...
I'm taking Combat Lifesaver next weekend...
I f'ing hate needles. I'd like to do a little preliminary 'practice' to sort of lessen the stress factor beforehand. I was thinking of getting some syringes and saline and trying a few practice shots. As dumb as this sounds, I really have a phobia about these stupid things. Any suggestions?
TIA
QS
IP: Logged
gear_guru
Member posted 01-04-2003 04:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just curious, but are you going to be the sticker or the stickee on these "practice" shots? Last time I checked CLS didn't teach you to be both at once.
IP: Logged
Keld
Member posted 01-04-2003 05:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QuietShootr,
It's all in your head.
Doing practice shots on yourself is most likely not going to help with your phobia, but might increase it, if you dont do it right. Work it out in your head, there really isnt anything bad going to happen if you do it right. But dont start to do injections on yourself, until you have recieved proper technique training.
Im not sure how your CLS program runs, but our CLS program, if you can call it that, have you do injections on yourself, because if you can do that, you can do it to others, no problem. But the other way around, some people tend to have problems. It's all in the head.
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 09:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You 'get to' be both sticker and stickee, from what I understand. Believe me, I know it's stupid...if it were reasonable, it wouldn't be a phobia!
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 09:58
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gear_guru:
Just curious, but are you going to be the sticker or the stickee on these "practice" shots? Last time I checked CLS didn't teach you to be both at once.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I've been misinformed, but I thought you had to do both. I was thinking of sticking myself (this is REALLY starting to sound obscene) as sort of a desensitization thing.
IP: Logged
MedTech
Novice posted 01-04-2003 18:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quiet I cannot attest to the CLS course. But I can help you on starting IV's.
If you have this high of a phobia of sticking someone and being stuck, go your turn first of starting it on someone.
Put your tourniquet on.
Once you find a good IV site, clean with your alcohol prep. Not sure the CLS way, but in my world it is a big no,no to touch the IV site once it has been prepped with alcohol.
Take a good deep breath and hold your IV Cath between your thumb and middle finger. I prefer to go flat and shallow. Do not jab, just easily advance till you see "flash". Once you get the flash, advance the cath and pull the needle out. As you pull the needle out, try to put pressure on the vein and cath location. Don't worry if some blood comes out of the hub of the cath. Then attach your line of fluid and secure your cath.
If you are interested in praticing and just worried about handling a needle, get a kids foam squishy ball or an orange/grapefruit. This will give you the benefit of feeling the pop going through the outer laying and advancing.
I wouldn't be trying to stick yourself if you are that nervous. Get one of your buddies and let them pratice on you if you are worried about being stuck. Or you can always go to your local EMS station and see if they have a new guy that wants some pratice. If they say EJ, RUN!
If you need any other help, let me know.
IP: Logged
gear_guru
Member posted 01-04-2003 19:33
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you get to do both, but not simultaneously! That was my point. Are you scared of performing the stick or receiving the IV?
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 21:14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Receiving is the problem, not giving!
What's flash? Is that when you see the hub fill with blood?
[This message has been edited by QuietShootr (edited 01-04-2003).]
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 21:17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MedTech:
Quiet I cannot attest to the CLS course. But I can help you on starting IV's.
If you have this high of a phobia of sticking someone and being stuck, go your turn first of starting it on someone.
Put your tourniquet on.
Once you find a good IV site, clean with your alcohol prep. Not sure the CLS way, but in my world it is a big no,no to touch the IV site once it has been prepped with alcohol.
Take a good deep breath and hold your IV Cath between your thumb and middle finger. I prefer to go flat and shallow. Do not jab, just easily advance till you see "flash". Once you get the flash, advance the cath and pull the needle out. As you pull the needle out, try to put pressure on the vein and cath location. Don't worry if some blood comes out of the hub of the cath. Then attach your line of fluid and secure your cath.
If you are interested in praticing and just worried about handling a needle, get a kids foam squishy ball or an orange/grapefruit. This will give you the benefit of feeling the pop going through the outer laying and advancing.
I wouldn't be trying to stick yourself if you are that nervous. Get one of your buddies and let them pratice on you if you are worried about being stuck. Or you can always go to your local EMS station and see if they have a new guy that wants some pratice. If they say EJ, RUN!
If you need any other help, let me know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay...what's EJ?
IP: Logged
MedTech
Novice posted 01-04-2003 21:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Flash is what it is called when the hub gets blood in it.
EJ = External Jugular Vein. It is the large one in your neck. Usually done on pts circling the drain.
I wouldn't just sit at home and prick yourself with a needle to get used to it. Just don't look at your buddy or where he is sticking on the check off.
But there are alot of places out there that don't mind helping you in your area.
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-04-2003 21:44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MedTech:
Yes, Flash is what it is called when the hub gets blood in it.
EJ = External Jugular Vein. It is the large one in your neck. Usually done on pts circling the drain.
I wouldn't just sit at home and prick yourself with a needle to get used to it. Just don't look at your buddy or where he is sticking on the check off.
But there are alot of places out there that don't mind helping you in your area.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ack!! I'd hope I wouldn't be conscious for that! Though I suppose if you were having that done, you would have much bigger concerns than the needle stick.
[This message has been edited by QuietShootr (edited 01-04-2003).]
IP: Logged
RESQDOC
Member posted 01-05-2003 11:59
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A common problem. No worries, for the next week do this:
Don't stick yourself, do guided imagery desensitization. I want you, at least two times a day, to lay down in a quiet place, and begin with simple breathing exercises. Slow in, slow out, for about 5 minutes, until you are relaxed. Do not actively think about getting an IV, but don't try and force the thoughts away if they come to you. Just breath in, breath out while thinking to yourself "(in) Feeling Good" "(out) Feeling Fineeeee". Now start to think about the specifics of the IV process. First you will lay down. Then they will clean your arm. Then they will put a tourniquet on your arm. Then they will introduce the needle in your arm. Then there will be a little blood flow and the IV will be hooked up. Then they will tape it in place. At each stage as you visualize it, as you begin to experience anxiety you will not go any further, but do your breathing exercises and then in a few moments you can go on and visualize the next step. At the end you will visualize yourself having completed the entire process without difficulty, breath and relax.
Have the most experienced person start the first one on you. Have them use a large vein in the forearm, not hand, they hurt less. In a practice setting it is often helpful to infiltrate a little Lidocaine over the vein with a really small needle, so that you don't feel the IV so much - ask ahead of time if they can do this for you. You can also reduce the sensation with ice but this will make smaller veins a bit harder to hit so pick a big one. Lay down while they are starting the IV and do the breathing exercises exactly as you practiced them. It will be over before you know it.
You will do well. You will complete your training successfully. You will be proud of yourself.
With variations on this I have repaired lacerations, reduced dislocations and fractures, and done various other minor procedures both in the ER and in the field without pain meds/locals. It works.
HTH,
Keith
IP: Logged
gear_guru
Member posted 01-05-2003 17:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESQDOC, you know they aren't going to "be nice" at CLS. Some other student is going to stick him. The kid doing his stick will probably be doing it for the first time. I hate to say it, but chances are good he will be digging around.
My suggestion is for him to get with his Bn Medics before he goes if he wants to be a pin cushion. Otherwise, when the IV class hapens, turn his head, look the other way, say "there no place like home" and take it like a man.
IP: Logged
RESQDOC
Member posted 01-05-2003 19:32
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right, bending over and taking it like a man is MUCH better than actually solving the problem...
GG I have read and respected your posts on other forums, but IMO you have stepped on your reproductive unit here. This man had the courage to admit a concern and ask for help in a sincere fashion. Good for him. I offered help using proven techniques, although you may not understand the underlying principles. Your comments just blew the entire theraputic response out of the water by undermining whatever confidence he might have gained out of our efforts to help him. Whatever he encountered at CLS, he would have been better prepared for what he experienced there. Good job GG, thanks for your help.
For those of you actually interested in learning something, modifications of the technique above is an effective method of field pain control when medications are not available or not indicated. Professionals understand the role that the mind plays in performance, perception, results.
IP: Logged
QuietShootr
Novice posted 01-05-2003 20:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll try that, starting tomorrow. I think gear_guru is right though, I'm likely to have an 18 year old PFC taking the Bayonet Assault course on my arm. It's an old phobia for me, and I'm willing to try about anything to mitigate it.
My wife thinks it's funny as hell... "you'll jump out of a plane, eat anything anyone will put in front of you, etc..etc.. and you're scared shitless of needles!" Women..
:-)
One of my compadres says he can snitch me some topical lidocaine, FWIW.
Will try and report back...
***** And the learning point here is...? Echos the comments about wilfull ingnorance, does it not? Scream.