tangent
02-11-03, 04:54
This has passed peer review
--------------------------------
This topic is in peer review because it discusses entry techniques. What are current policies concerning EMS personels possession and use of entry tools? (aka "burglary tools"). It could be anything from a rescue axe to a set of lock picks. I know specifically, EMT's used to be able to carry pics. They can also buy vests in areas where they are restricted, usually.
----8<----
Water and air are massivly under-rated structural and pressure resisting materials. They can be used to move things.
I ran across something called an air wedge, used by locksmiths. It's similar to the pneumatic lifting devices I've seen used for extraction work, but smaller. The original one was about the size of 1/2 of a BP cuff bladder, the new one looks exactly the size of a BP cuff bladder. It also looks exactly like a replacement bladder, complete with hose and bulb pump. There are differences. The seal arround the edge is different and probably stronger than that on a BP cuff or IV bag. It's also made of vinyl and contains no guage.
So what can you do with one? Think of them as mini-jaws of life. They spread and lift things... like doors. They might be able to lift other things like cars, rocks and slabs of concrete trapping someones leg. They are considered to be the best thing since sliced bread for people that open cars with the keys locked inside. They are apparently really good at spreading the door open enough to get a coathanger or similar in to open the lock. On that tangent, I can't think of anything we normally carry that could be used to open a locked car without canabalizing the ambulance. An ET stylet comes close, but is too short and McGills don't have a prayer!. Canabalize the ambulance options included stripping some of the heavier wireing and maybe using the antenna w/ some tape and suture or a catheter or... in a noose type arraingement, at the end of a pole.
Anyway, they are also usefull for opening other kinds of doors. Like bathroom doors (suicide, slip and fall - unconcious or loony toons - there are times when EMS personel need to effect entry - and I'm not refering to use #38 of a bag of IV fluid: to reduce the velocity of a slab of C4... ). The technique is potentually usefull for opening exterior doors on older houses with loose tollerences. It is also supposed to be effective at opening garage doors (CO2 suicide, accidental solvent or pesticide OD, etc). On bathroom doors, they frequently, but don't allways have a little hole in the middle that can be pressed in to unlock it. Such doors give in readilly to being kicked, but it could fly in and hurt who you are trying to help.
As to lifting, one could conceivable change a tire, get unstuck or lift a rock or something trapping someones leg, given 2 stacks of blocks that could be slowly raised by the addition of another layers.
OK - so what does this have to do with the Buck Rodgers department? Well, we have 2 items we commonly use that might be pressed into service: the BP cuff and the IV bag. Both are likely to have burst strengths less than this device, but I have not tried this and suspect the guage on the BP would max out before that was reached. Still, the pressure needed to do this can not be that great, based on the BP cuff bulb being used as the compression source. I think the key is that the surface area is spread out, so you get more bang per psi. Anyone have a conversion formula for mg/Hg to tons of lifting force? I have heard that IV bags are really strong and can survive being run over (full). Both options have advantages and disadvantages. The BP cuff is thicker, has a guage that may be damaged or loose callibration and it's more expensive. The IV bag on the other hand is thinner but has a weakpoint that may need to be reinforced - specifically, any joint in the system. Quick drying superglue comes to mind... For this latter system, an empty IV bag is needed as the wedge. The compression source could eithor be a 50cc syringe (w/ optional 3-way valve, hemostats and tubing or another full IV bag that someone stands on - thanks Javahed!)
any comments?
-t
----------------------------
RR replied:
Entry tools are commonly looked at as tools of the trade. If you can justify possessing them by way of your trade then you are kosher. I doubt we have too many would-be upper story types checking the forums.
The BP cuff bladder idea may just work. Rescue bags come in two types - low pressure and high pressure. I prefer the former myself in case of catastrophic failure. You would need to firm the connections with superglue lest the air pressure pop the tubing off the connector. But I can very easily see a door being popped off the hinges that way.
I say the article is good for a public forum as far as info.
RR
-----------------------------
The usual point of attack is the latch.
The other thing this is good for is something on the "guy thing" list of things I want to do before hell freezes over. It's toward the bottom - surpassed only by rearrainging furniture and hanging drywall on the ceiling without scaffolding. That item is hanging windows and doors. Think about it - an inflatable wedge or shim you can use to raise the door to exactly the level of the hinges!, then deflate and slip out. This suddenly becomes a one person job and easy!
OK, on entry techniques - let me tell you a story: (RR if this is pushing it too far, nuke it) One day I was sitting in a back room of our house. It was early morning and there was a work crew between the houses. There was a knock on the door, that I ignored, like phones, unless I'm expecting someone - not liking to talk to salesman or religious freaks... Then I heard a kinda faint, odd noise that I didn't think much of and a minute later a black guy polked his head in and said: oh, sorry - I'm with the work crew outside. Your roommate said I could use the bathroom. I said sure, go back a couple of feet and it's around the corner. As he's dissapearing, it's suddenly dawning on me: A) this guy isn't dressed like a workman, B) I just heard too many footsteps, too fast to be going to the bathroom.... and C) my roommate, USUALLY leaves about 30 minutes ago for work... I jumped up and was after him! Damb! - that guy could sprint! - I saw him for a few paces before he passed out the door, by the time I got there, he was no where to be seen. Looking arround, I knowticed mussed up venarian blinds. Examining the window, I found a very neat 1" - 1.5" hole, with NO cracks radiating from it, just above the window latch... Stepping back, I realized that this "burgler" if that was what he was, was very professional and did a few things right. 1) he did not carry anything that could be considered a burglary tool. 2) he had a pre-planned cover, 3) once in he IMMEDIATLY opened the front door to facilitate an escape, 4) he then proceded to do a hasty search of the premices to ensure he was alone. On finding that he was not, he bugged out! EMS people should be thinking on a similar wavelength. I then called the cops and my roommate/landlord. They came and the cops recognised the signiture. He explained it. The guy carries a newspaper of magazine that he rolls up tightly, then using one hand as a guide, he thrusts the palm of the other hand against the end. It makes nice, neat holes in glass windows. Like right above the latch.
the cop also mentioned that houses near a highway on ramp, like we were, are PRIME targets for theives, as they have a quick means of getting away and getting lost.
other notes - walls/doors It makes little sence to place a high security lock on a hollow core door, or to install a solid steel door on a room with plasterboard walls. Point is, the smarter thievs may ignore the door... However, there is a big difference between spreading a door frame and knocking a large hole in someones wall. Yes, extreme measures are justified if someones life is at stake, but this may open you up to legal problems.
-t
-t
--------------------------------
This topic is in peer review because it discusses entry techniques. What are current policies concerning EMS personels possession and use of entry tools? (aka "burglary tools"). It could be anything from a rescue axe to a set of lock picks. I know specifically, EMT's used to be able to carry pics. They can also buy vests in areas where they are restricted, usually.
----8<----
Water and air are massivly under-rated structural and pressure resisting materials. They can be used to move things.
I ran across something called an air wedge, used by locksmiths. It's similar to the pneumatic lifting devices I've seen used for extraction work, but smaller. The original one was about the size of 1/2 of a BP cuff bladder, the new one looks exactly the size of a BP cuff bladder. It also looks exactly like a replacement bladder, complete with hose and bulb pump. There are differences. The seal arround the edge is different and probably stronger than that on a BP cuff or IV bag. It's also made of vinyl and contains no guage.
So what can you do with one? Think of them as mini-jaws of life. They spread and lift things... like doors. They might be able to lift other things like cars, rocks and slabs of concrete trapping someones leg. They are considered to be the best thing since sliced bread for people that open cars with the keys locked inside. They are apparently really good at spreading the door open enough to get a coathanger or similar in to open the lock. On that tangent, I can't think of anything we normally carry that could be used to open a locked car without canabalizing the ambulance. An ET stylet comes close, but is too short and McGills don't have a prayer!. Canabalize the ambulance options included stripping some of the heavier wireing and maybe using the antenna w/ some tape and suture or a catheter or... in a noose type arraingement, at the end of a pole.
Anyway, they are also usefull for opening other kinds of doors. Like bathroom doors (suicide, slip and fall - unconcious or loony toons - there are times when EMS personel need to effect entry - and I'm not refering to use #38 of a bag of IV fluid: to reduce the velocity of a slab of C4... ). The technique is potentually usefull for opening exterior doors on older houses with loose tollerences. It is also supposed to be effective at opening garage doors (CO2 suicide, accidental solvent or pesticide OD, etc). On bathroom doors, they frequently, but don't allways have a little hole in the middle that can be pressed in to unlock it. Such doors give in readilly to being kicked, but it could fly in and hurt who you are trying to help.
As to lifting, one could conceivable change a tire, get unstuck or lift a rock or something trapping someones leg, given 2 stacks of blocks that could be slowly raised by the addition of another layers.
OK - so what does this have to do with the Buck Rodgers department? Well, we have 2 items we commonly use that might be pressed into service: the BP cuff and the IV bag. Both are likely to have burst strengths less than this device, but I have not tried this and suspect the guage on the BP would max out before that was reached. Still, the pressure needed to do this can not be that great, based on the BP cuff bulb being used as the compression source. I think the key is that the surface area is spread out, so you get more bang per psi. Anyone have a conversion formula for mg/Hg to tons of lifting force? I have heard that IV bags are really strong and can survive being run over (full). Both options have advantages and disadvantages. The BP cuff is thicker, has a guage that may be damaged or loose callibration and it's more expensive. The IV bag on the other hand is thinner but has a weakpoint that may need to be reinforced - specifically, any joint in the system. Quick drying superglue comes to mind... For this latter system, an empty IV bag is needed as the wedge. The compression source could eithor be a 50cc syringe (w/ optional 3-way valve, hemostats and tubing or another full IV bag that someone stands on - thanks Javahed!)
any comments?
-t
----------------------------
RR replied:
Entry tools are commonly looked at as tools of the trade. If you can justify possessing them by way of your trade then you are kosher. I doubt we have too many would-be upper story types checking the forums.
The BP cuff bladder idea may just work. Rescue bags come in two types - low pressure and high pressure. I prefer the former myself in case of catastrophic failure. You would need to firm the connections with superglue lest the air pressure pop the tubing off the connector. But I can very easily see a door being popped off the hinges that way.
I say the article is good for a public forum as far as info.
RR
-----------------------------
The usual point of attack is the latch.
The other thing this is good for is something on the "guy thing" list of things I want to do before hell freezes over. It's toward the bottom - surpassed only by rearrainging furniture and hanging drywall on the ceiling without scaffolding. That item is hanging windows and doors. Think about it - an inflatable wedge or shim you can use to raise the door to exactly the level of the hinges!, then deflate and slip out. This suddenly becomes a one person job and easy!
OK, on entry techniques - let me tell you a story: (RR if this is pushing it too far, nuke it) One day I was sitting in a back room of our house. It was early morning and there was a work crew between the houses. There was a knock on the door, that I ignored, like phones, unless I'm expecting someone - not liking to talk to salesman or religious freaks... Then I heard a kinda faint, odd noise that I didn't think much of and a minute later a black guy polked his head in and said: oh, sorry - I'm with the work crew outside. Your roommate said I could use the bathroom. I said sure, go back a couple of feet and it's around the corner. As he's dissapearing, it's suddenly dawning on me: A) this guy isn't dressed like a workman, B) I just heard too many footsteps, too fast to be going to the bathroom.... and C) my roommate, USUALLY leaves about 30 minutes ago for work... I jumped up and was after him! Damb! - that guy could sprint! - I saw him for a few paces before he passed out the door, by the time I got there, he was no where to be seen. Looking arround, I knowticed mussed up venarian blinds. Examining the window, I found a very neat 1" - 1.5" hole, with NO cracks radiating from it, just above the window latch... Stepping back, I realized that this "burgler" if that was what he was, was very professional and did a few things right. 1) he did not carry anything that could be considered a burglary tool. 2) he had a pre-planned cover, 3) once in he IMMEDIATLY opened the front door to facilitate an escape, 4) he then proceded to do a hasty search of the premices to ensure he was alone. On finding that he was not, he bugged out! EMS people should be thinking on a similar wavelength. I then called the cops and my roommate/landlord. They came and the cops recognised the signiture. He explained it. The guy carries a newspaper of magazine that he rolls up tightly, then using one hand as a guide, he thrusts the palm of the other hand against the end. It makes nice, neat holes in glass windows. Like right above the latch.
the cop also mentioned that houses near a highway on ramp, like we were, are PRIME targets for theives, as they have a quick means of getting away and getting lost.
other notes - walls/doors It makes little sence to place a high security lock on a hollow core door, or to install a solid steel door on a room with plasterboard walls. Point is, the smarter thievs may ignore the door... However, there is a big difference between spreading a door frame and knocking a large hole in someones wall. Yes, extreme measures are justified if someones life is at stake, but this may open you up to legal problems.
-t
-t