Can we ask questions here?

[Just Wondering]

I've printed out the book, and as I'm reading, I'm making a list of questions. I've been able to cross some of them off, by researching on internet, but suspect there might be a few I still need to ask.

Where do I ask those questions? Here, or where the early drafts of the book was put?

[Craig]

Here is fine.

Craig

[Just Wondering]

Ta.

By the way, I'm in the Nth Island too :D: have forgotten twice to tell you that...

First question, which I'm not going to resolve by reading further on.

You recommend buying two texts. A good basic medicine text, and a physiology and anatomy. The latter I think is self explanatory, but a look in the shop behind Philson medical library revealed more gaps than books, and the lady behind the counter got grumpy and said that different people like different texts, and I should say what I want. :confused: :roll:

Okay, these are the texts I have.

An outdated Harrisons Principles of Internal Medicine, which I know I should update. I's "only" 1977 :P:

Two outdated similar books...An outdated "Textbook of Clincal Pharmacology H.J. Rogers.

An outdated "Medical Microbiology" R. Cruickshank

Goodman and Gilman's "Phamacological Basis of Therapeutics" also very outdated.

Autopsy book which I never look at.

A book I rarely venture into as its gruesome "Pathology of the fetus and the infant."

I have lots of midwifery books, as I do labour support, and have had to catch the odd baby myself. Not to mention a few dozen calves on wet stormy nights.

A recent "clinical hematology" Stiene-Martin

Two smaller immunology texts: Sompayrac's "How the immune system works" and Kendall's "Dying to Live."

Heaps of technical stuff on breastfeeding and nutrition.

My physiology text is too old, and the new ones have so much more in them, so I'd like to get one of them as well. But again, the med school shop only had a large thin one comprised mainly of charts.

Given that you know what's available in this country, what texts would you advise me to purchase? I suspect I will have to order them, given the paucity of what's on the shelves right now. Since they want me to tell them what I want, can I pass the buck to you since I have NO IDEA what would be best. Also, you mention that you can buy medical supplies on E-bay. Do you recommend I buy books on E-bay? I looked at the lists on the board on the stairway to Philson of second hand ones, but there weren't any that I could identify as of interest.

Any advice?

[goatlady]

JW, just thought I' let you know Craig left yesterday for the US for 2 weeks, so it may be a while before he gets back to you - just so you know he is not ignoring you! As to books to have, the Survival and Remote Medicine book we all wrote/put together has complete lists of the MOST recommended books, plus places to purchase books and materials, and equipment worldwide, a lot recommended by Craig as he did most of the writing in a lot of the chapters, and RR physically reviewed most of the books listed, and he is actively employed in the medical field as is Craig. I think you will have a lot of your questions answered by reading Survival and Remote Medicine" An Introduction - that's what we wrote it for.

[FlightERDoc]

Ta.

By the way, I'm in the Nth Island too :D: have forgotten twice to tell you that...

First question, which I'm not going to resolve by reading further on.

You recommend buying two texts. A good basic medicine text, and a physiology and anatomy. The latter I think is self explanatory, but a look in the shop behind Philson medical library revealed more gaps than books, and the lady behind the counter got grumpy and said that different people like different texts, and I should say what I want. :confused: :roll:

Okay, these are the texts I have.

An outdated Harrisons Principles of Internal Medicine, which I know I should update. I's "only" 1977 :P:

Two outdated similar books...An outdated "Textbook of Clincal Pharmacology H.J. Rogers.

An outdated "Medical Microbiology" R. Cruickshank

Goodman and Gilman's "Phamacological Basis of Therapeutics" also very outdated.

Autopsy book which I never look at.

A book I rarely venture into as its gruesome "Pathology of the fetus and the infant."

I have lots of midwifery books, as I do labour support, and have had to catch the odd baby myself. Not to mention a few dozen calves on wet stormy nights.

A recent "clinical hematology" Stiene-Martin

Two smaller immunology texts: Sompayrac's "How the immune system works" and Kendall's "Dying to Live."

Heaps of technical stuff on breastfeeding and nutrition.

My physiology text is too old, and the new ones have so much more in them, so I'd like to get one of them as well. But again, the med school shop only had a large thin one comprised mainly of charts.

Given that you know what's available in this country, what texts would you advise me to purchase? I suspect I will have to order them, given the paucity of what's on the shelves right now. Since they want me to tell them what I want, can I pass the buck to you since I have NO IDEA what would be best. Also, you mention that you can buy medical supplies on E-bay. Do you recommend I buy books on E-bay? I looked at the lists on the board on the stairway to Philson of second hand ones, but there weren't any that I could identify as of interest.

Any advice?


Since Craig is on walkabout, I thought I'd offer my 2-cents worth

I doubt that anybody has ever read Harrisons (including the editor in chief). It's just too big. For simple, austere medicine something that doesn't weigh 8 kilos should be enough - the Merck Manual, perhaps?

For Physiology, if you have a basic idea about how things work I'd suggest either the BRS physiology review by Costanzo, or the 'Stars' edition, also by Costanzo. If you really want to know physiology, get the Guyton book.

For pharmacology, the BRS pharm book is probably adequate. It covers enough of the basic catagories (eg, most ACE inhibitors work the same way) to be adequate. Or, you can get a Physicians Desk Reference (even a few years old is probably OK).

The older medical micro is probably just fine. In an austere environment you won't be doing any of the gee-whiz fluorescence staining or using radioactive DNA markers.

As far as anatomy goes, you have two choices: an Atlas that shows what attaches where (Grays, Netter, Rohen) or a book that perhaps doesn't do quite as great a job as an atlas, but does a bit of explaining (Moore's Anatomy with Clinical Correlations). People haven't changed much over the last 10K years though, so an older book is just fine.

You can look for books on Ebay (although the shipping might be a bit much), another good site is campusi.com - they search a large number of online booksellers (new and used) and tell you which has the lowest prices.

As far as buying medical supplies on ebay, just be sure you know what you're buying. Oftentimes the seller is totally clueless about their products, and they may not be what's advertised, or useable due to sterility, completeness, working order, etc).

[tangent]

Ebay is international - well, at least in many countries and localized that way. ebay.com is the US, ebay.co.uk is england, I bet ebay.au is australia and NZ...

(remember germany had their own one too - but I'm spacing on the country code right now.)

re: shipping

-t

[Just Wondering]

Thank you flightERDoc, I have printed out your post.

Actually, I've used the Harrisons a lot. I just don't hike around the world with it in my back pocket. :D:

My knowledge of physiology isn't good enough, so I'll have at look at the Guyton one.



As to books to have, the Survival and Remote Medicine book we all wrote/put together has complete lists of the MOST recommended books, plus places to purchase books and materials, and equipment worldwide, a lot recommended by Craig as he did most of the writing in a lot of the chapters, and RR physically reviewed most of the books listed, and he is actively employed in the medical field as is Craig. I think you will have a lot of your questions answered by reading Survival and Remote Medicine" An Introduction - that's what we wrote it for.


I recognise your irritation at my question, qoatlady, and am in the process of reading the book. The point of my question to Craig is this. This list of books provided is all very well, but Graig lives in the same country as I am in. He has offered to teach me, so, it makes sense to use whatever will make his and my job easiest. So if I'm going to spend the money to update on texts, I'd rather wait until he tells me which specific ones he'd rather I use.

And I will do the same with any medical supples and equipment he tells me to get. I'm not going to go through the lists and chose what I think would be best. He knows this country, and therefore will also know what is best to get and from where.

It's easy to think the world is a universal clone, but its not. What we have available to us, isn't necessarily what you have up there. As Craig noted in his post about going shopping in the USA for certain "things".

From a personal point of view, what else I chose to get for my own reference and education is another matter.

By the way Goatlady regarding the picture at the end of your chapter. ... for whatever reason, and not for cultivation reasons of our own, every year, my vegetable garden's major weed to be removed promptly, is the opium poppy :D:

Craig, if you are checking in on this thread. I also have Coffee's "Ditch medicine" and the first two on your list "Where there is no doctor" and "where there is no dentist." But I won't add to my list apart from text's I'm interested in, until you either give me a list, or tell me to "go to it..."

[Just Wondering]

Flight ERDoctor,

I went on to Amazon.com to look at Guyton's book, and saw this review:


Update the book, Guyton and Hall! And correct your mistakes!, November 20, 2002
Reviewer: Mark D. Slivkoff "slivkoff" (Orange, CA United States) - See all my reviews

As a cardiovascular physiologist teaching at a medical university, this textbook is a fantastic teaching tool, especially with respect to cardiovascular and renal physiology. Unfortunately, I have to supplement my course with the texts of Ganong and even Costanzo to bring the students up-to-date with our current understanding of physiological mechanisms underlying the surface on which Guyton and Hall seem to focus their discussion. By not delving just a bit deeper, much of the beauty of the integrative nature of physiology is lost. For example, you won't find discussion of endothelial sodium channels (ENaCs) in the section on renal physiology. Since these channels are affected by both ANP and aldosterone, their importance in allowing the student to understand the "hows" behind sodium reabsorption cannot be overestimated. This is only one example (I'm currently doing my renal lectures).
There is no discussion regarding molecular and even cellular aspects underlying many of the disease states discussed in the textbook. Our students must be made aware of the fact that molecular biology is real and relevant. Even more important is that the "macro" portion of physiology is a direct consequence of the "micro" portion of physiology. Just a nice way to understand the integration. This is why I rely on Ganong.

Mistakes. This 10th Edition has mis-labeled graphs (reference to lines that do not exist) and some extreme typographical errors (decrease in place of increase, et cetera). How can I justify a textbook that is in its 10th edition, used all over the world, if I find such mistakes. Again, another reason to drop this book from my list of required reading.

Another complaint is that the chapters are not cross-referenced, which means that you may find relevant discussion nestled on page 769 that you really needed to find in chapter 4. Please make the book more of a unit. It is very confusing for the students.

The bottom line is that this book truly shines in many areas, but lacks in enough areas to deem it not usable anymore by my students. Without a significant update it will be dropped from my course (it IS being dropped next semester, as a matter of fact).

I suggest Costanzo and Ganong as required texts and supplementing the course with handouts from Guyton. There is no need to by this large book for only a few good chapters. There is not enough time to cover the material in one physiology course, and the student is better off going to other textbooks (new text by Boron) if a great physiology textbook will be used later on for reference.

Do you have any comment? I'm still happy to consider it, as it seems to have things others don't... but I'm just weighing up where would be best to start.

I'm off to look at Ganong and Costanzo's books.

[FlightERDoc]

It all depends what you're looking for - Guyton is a medical school text, and is quite detailed.

The Costanza book (for example, the BRS version) is a review of the topic, used mainly for review for the medical boards. It helps to have some idea of the topic to make sense of it, or answer the questions that you might develop trying to understand it.

However, the intricacies of how the heart conducts electrical impulses, or the exact method the kidney filters, or the intermediates of the Tri-carboxylic acid cycle (Krebs, ATP cycles) are less important than being able to figure out what to DO when someone is sick or ill. Do physicians need that level of understanding? Maybe (realistically, most don't). Should you strive for that level of understanding? If you want to.

BTW, the edition of Guyton that I have is the 9th, if you can find a used copy that would probably be cheaper, and it certainly won't have any more wrong information than any other textbook (all of which have errors).

[Just Wondering]

Thanks FlightERDoc.

Your comments are very helpful.